Logitech G25 Racing Wheel
by Logitech
|
Our Price: $549.98 Availability: Usually ships in 1-2 business days Buy Used: from $234.00 (click here) Category: CE See more product details |
|---|
Customers in the UK,
Buy this product at amazon.co.uk
for British Pounds
Digital Cameras Photo Reviews of Logitech G25 Racing Wheel
Customer Review: Amazing build and realism for the price you pay
Summary: 4 Stars
I had a Logitech Driving Force Pro for a while, but its lack of an H-pattern shifter and a clutch pedal gave me an excuse to turn to something better - the G25.
When I first opened the infamous green Logitech box that housed the product and grabbed out the wheel, I was surprised by a few things:
1. The weight - The three items that consist of the G25 weigh markedly heavier than the Driving Force Pro. The pedal base seems much more sturdy. The steering wheel feels about the same, and of course there's the new shifter.
2. The easy movement of the wheel - anyone who has owned a Driving Force Pro knows that it's relatively difficult to turn due to the friction in the motors; the G25 glides as I turn it back and forth.
3. The cheap plastic! - a turn off was the build quality of some of the parts. I was almost dismayed to see that the spokes that are used to tighten the clamps were flimsy and difficult to turn, and it took me a whole 15 minutes to figure out how to depress the knobs to tuck away. The clamps seem flimsy especially on the shifter. Fortunately physics works - despite the appearance, the shifter and the wheel were both quite firm when attached to my table.
As for the other parts - the shifter felt as other reviewers had described - flimsy and unrealistic, and my second gear didn't seem to be very weak, as if it were a person hanging off a cliff, about to be throw back into neutral. The top of the shifter is cheap plastic, not the aluminum that decorates the rest of the system. Otherwise, everything else seemed to look good.
4. The alarming clearance of the wheel clamps - sadly, Logitech still assumed that all tables and desks made in the world are an inch thick. Well both my coffee table and my dining table (both from IKEA, mind you I'm a college student) are about two inches thick, and i couldn't fasten the wheel onto either surface. What's confusing is that the SHIFTER seemed to have more than two inches of clamp clearance, so I affixed that to my coffee table. Fortunately I had another wooden table that was under an inch in thickness, and I clamped my wheel down there.
5. The tiny area of the carpet grip on the pedals - the base of the G25 pedals is huge compared to that of the Driving Force Pro. I expected a wider area of "spikes" to be used for carpet grip, but I was perplexed to see the same ~ 2" x 12" strip of spikes for the carpet. When I set the carpet grip down though, I noticed after you push to an extent, the grip really grips the carpet, and the base ain't moving nowhere after that.
USING THE WHEEL
Okay, I popped my laptop in front of me and I played around in Live For Speed until I really got the hang of the wheel, and I'll tell you that I was genuinely surprised. The wheel isn't just accurate and good - it's amazing.
The Driving Force Pro was a solid wheel and had good force feedback, but it was hard to turn and a bit rough sometimes. The G25 is a new level of force feedback, smooth and quiet. The wheel turns easily through all 900 degrees of freedom, and the pedals accurately represent what pedals should feel like in real life*.
*To be annoying, yes I do have some critiques about the wheel - to truly mimic a real car's pedals, first of all the pedals should be spaced out a bit farther - they are a bit cramped. The brake pedal's resistance is flat throughout its depression - in a real car, the resistance increases linearly with amount of depression. Lastly, and I know this isn't exactly feasible - the clutch pedal needs more travel distance to really simulate a car's clutch pedal.
But who cares about all that? Unless you're a real hardcore player with money to burn (you wouldn't be buying this wheel by the way), nobody's going to care. The freaking wheel costs under $300, a fraction of what hardcore players pay for their systems (which run up thousands of dollars). That's the main theme of this review - you get amazing quality for the price you pay.
More about the pedals - they simulate the experience much better than that of the Driving Force Pro's pedals, because when I give it half throttle in my DFP, the car will barely accelerate (but we know when we drive in real life that half throttle is something like 80% of your maximum acceleration), whereas in the G25, it's much closer to what I experience in my car. One more thing about the carpet grip - when I said before that they render your base immovable, I lied; when I heel-toe shift sometimes (read: push the clutch in often and hard), I notice a tendency (very small though) for the base to rotate clockwise and slide back a little. This doesn't happen when I press the gas pedal though. After a long round of playing, I will have to readjust my pedal base, but I think it's just because I want a perfect playing position, and most people wouldn't mind.
And for games that support a clutch (i.e. Live For Speed, which is amazing with the G25), you can slip the clutch and find that sweet spot where it hooks; you can stall your car, do drifting techniques (like clutch kicking), drop the clutch without having to worry about spending real money to replace your transmission, etc. In short, the pedals cannot be better for something that costs like $250.
The wheel, I already talked about. In summary, it's basically the DFP but quieter, smoother, better as a whole. The only small thing I'd like to mention is that there are only two buttons on the steering wheel. I miss being able to look backwards by holding two buttons down. Currently I use the left button for look left and the right one for look right. I do like the buttons on the gear shifter, as they're laid out very well and I can know which button I'm pushing without looking down (4 is the upper limit for being able to just feel around to push the right button).
Lastly, the shifter...yes the shifter is a real turn off when using the G25, and this I will make a legitimate complaint about; the least Logitech could have done is to put something inside the lever to increase its resistance, and to actually HOLD it into gear (accidental bumping of my gear shifter will throw it back into neutral). The craftsmanship is excellent though, and designwise it's just great to simulate a real H-shifter, with a German feel to have reverse as push-down-sixth.
In summary, I'm very happy with my G25. Although it's not a perfect wheel and has some shoddy design qualities, you aren't going to find anything in the market that's competitive with its design less than two or three times its price.
Score: 4+/5
Customer Review: G25 wheel - awesome pedals, nice handling, some defects
Summary: 4 Stars
June 2009 - Ok I need to preface this now that I have had it for a while - this wheel was wonderful when I first got it, but it didn't last the way I had hoped. Particularly the paddle shifters - they definitely have been a pain to deal with over the hundreds of hours I've put into this rig. Persistent double and triple shifting due to the flimsy metal which tends to 'flutter' if you tap it the wrong way (often when you don't mean to such as during aggressive maneuvers or quick corrections).
I finally got frustrated enough to try hooking up my old DFP wheel and I realized what I was missing - although it took some adjustment, the wheel weight feels much better, inspires more confidence (and the paddles never double-shift by accident). Mind you I have now been to Formula racing school so I have some frame of reference, and I finally bought a real car as well which is set up more for performance than comfort. The G25's resistance feels like a rubber band compared to the Driving Force Pro - the G25 is smoother for quick changes of direction, but when you get over 200mph in a twitchy car you sometimes feel a little disconnected from the responsiveness. I don't remember exactly what about the force feedback architecture was different between the two - something about a single versus double spindle? anyway you'll find that the double has some strange side-effects at its limits (really high speeds and/or bumpy roads), while the single of the DFP is better able to be consistent under the same situations.
The real dilemma is that the plastic pedals on the DFP are annoyingly light compared to the wonderful metal pedals on the G25. I thought, maybe if I used the metal pedals with the DFP wheel I'd have the best of both, but unfortunately they are not compatible. (I even tried using the plastic pedals on the G25 wheel to see if they'd work, but that actually makes the brake pedal work backwards.)
Anyway, what I most realize about my old review is how much I needed to work on my footwork at that point in my skill progression, more so than working on steering inputs; and the new G25 equipment really met this need:
February 2007 - I actually got this item at the same time as I purchased the Sparco racing cockpit (with a Siena seat), for playing Gran Turismo 4 primarily (although it also works great for NFS Most Wanted or F1 Championship on the PS3). The good news is this wheel is a huge improvement over the Driving Force Pro, and it seems Logitech has paid attention to the reviews in designing the G25. The overall physics of the feel and feedback is more accurate and lifelike, the action is much quieter than the zipper noise we used to endure, and now the wheel will actually straighten on its own like a real car does. I find that this is most helpful during rally or any kind of drift driving that is steering-happy, but even the twitchy Formula car is easier to handle. I also think that this wheel is more of the correct size, even for Formula 1 enthusiasts. The paddle shifters are of course easier to use than the little buttons. I hardly need to say how much better it is to have leather and steel instead of plastic and rubber. And the pedals, even though the clutch is not yet supported by many games, are far better in terms of the weight of the brake pedal and the board overall.
Now for the bad news - within a week I started experiencing intermittent double-shifting from the right paddle (any gear, could be 1st to 3rd or 5th to 7th) which is really annoying even if you catch it quickly with your left paddle. I read that some WD40 could fix this, so I applied some and it seemed to help. Also, the new shifter mount hangs down quite a bit and is wider than the pro cockpit can currently accommodate (I have it mounted to the side so I can still use the other buttons which are no longer on the wheel itself). Finally, I don't really think the position of the brake and accelerator are quite right for heel-toe, despite what the product description claims.
Nevertheless, if you can get this wheel it will make driving games feel much more realistic (which makes them easier somehow, and more enjoyable). Within a few weeks I had little trouble clearing all the GT4 license tests with gold times. I'm sure the added accuracy of this equipment would help anyone improve their game.
Customer Review: From Driving Force Pro to G25!! Wow, what a difference.
Summary: 5 Stars
This G25 is simply AMAZING. It receives 5 star votes for every category except value. This wheel's build quality is superb except the shifter like everyone has mentioned. This received a 4 star for value because come on.... $299msrp $220ish on every site? This is sooooo expensive.
I upgraded from a Driving Force Pro,which I got for $70 so upgrading to something that was 3x as expensive took a long "sit on it" time. I have wanted this wheel since it was first introduced and then after 2 years of "sitting on it" I finally bought it. Driving racing sims with the clutch adds a whole new level of fun. The DFP was good, probably the best before the G25 came along. Too bad the DFP had plastic pedals that don't give you a lot of resistance, a force feed back motors that gives you a lot of noise.
The G25 has amazing feel to it. The leather itself is worth some money in my book. Both the wheel and the gear shfiter are leather wrapped! The paddle shifters are aluminum that gives it a better feel than the DFP's buttons. When you shift with the g25 paddle shifter, it feels more smooth and sturdy.
The best part about the G25 is the pedals. They have amazing quality and feel to it. The pedals are also aluminum so they definitely feels better. They have little balls on them just like real pedals in my car. The best part is, the difference in resistance among the three pedals sealed the deal for me. The Gas pedal is sort of loose, you can lightly stomp on it and make it go all the way to the ground. The clutch is heavier than the gas pedal but the length is the same. In my car, the clutch goes far down!!! The brake is the party piece!! It has such strong resistance that compared to the DFP, it is so much easier to control. Example: driving Laguna Seca in GTR2 approaching the corkscrew, in the DFP, I'd brake hard but I always have to pull my foot back so I don't lock up the wheels. In the G25, with the resistance, I just have to push down with a certain but firm force, then push down even further for that last little bit of braking power.
I know a reviewer had said "clutch doesn't seem to do anything." Well in my games, the clutch does do something and it's important.
In GTR2, you can enable the clutch but it'll still let you shift it into gears if you don't clutch in. The problem is when you're down shifting while in clutch mode. When you downshift without clutching in, you wheels are going to lock and make you spin out, probably not what you want on the Nurburing. Secondly, if you can heel-toe for downshifting, it makes the transition so much smoother. Also if you are not moving and in gear without clutching in(obvious for those of us who drive a manual), it's going to stall! Of course if you don't turn clutch mode on, the computer game would do that for you and then you might as well just buy a Driving force pro.
In Test Drive Unlimited, clutching is absolutely essential. If you drive a manual in that game, and not clutch when you shift up or down, you're not going to get in gear then! Also if you don't work on your footwork you're going to stall the car when driving from a stop. For some unfortunate reason you spin out and don't clutch in, your car's going to stall too. This stuff makes it so fun for me!
Highly recommend this if you have $220ish to burn. (sell your GT4, sell your DFP, sell a couple of lemonades...)
Games I play: GTR2, Richard Burns Rally(with RSRBR08), Test Drive Unlimited, and Live For Speed.
Pros: the feel is everything!!!!
Leather wrapped wheel and shift knob
Brake and Clutch pedals resistance
Paddle shifters
900 degrees
PC compatible!!!! PS2 and PS3 too but I dont own them
Gear box can be a H-shifter with 6 speed + Reverse OR set it to sequential!!!! Up to you!!!
Cons:
Price - slightly more than what I could afford but I'm skipping lunches to afford this
Shifter is flimsy - Didn't go into this too much in the review but shifter isn't like a real car. You put very little effort in moving the shifter. Too much and you could break it.
Honestly this is the best steering wheel I've ever played with.
DFP is good, like climbing and winning king of the hill. But with the G25, it's like climbing a mountain! Yep, that much difference!
Customer Review: Solid construction, but it wasn't for me...
Summary: 2 Stars
The Logitech G25 is well built and a top tier PC steering wheel/pedal setup that would be well suited for gamers interested in motorsports.
1). Steering Wheel.
The wheel is very small and for good reason. It takes up a huge section of my computer desk and if the wheel were larger, it would be monstrous. The force feedback (FFB) is very finicky and requires constant tweaking to get it right for each type of game. This is not a setup and forget deal! There are dozens of people on the GTR2 and rFactor forums constantly tweaking the FFB settings trying to get it right. It just doesn't feel like the real thing even after spending hours fine-tuning it. I don't "feel" the right amount of resistance while making a turn. The steering wheel is too stiff or overdamped most of the time. Trying to make a simple low speed turn required excessive effort. The stainless steel paddle shifters always got in the way and I thought they were going to slice my fingers at one point. The "leather" is very cheap plasticized leather like the stuff you find on GM cars.
2). Shifter.
The shifter is the worst part out of the entire G25 kit. The short-throw is fun for the first few seconds until you find that the lack of resistance in the "gearbox" and ease of accidentally shifting into the wrong gear makes it feel like a kid's playschool toy. Overall the shifter felt very cheesy and it was easy to miss your shifts.
3). Pedals.
The pedals are spaced way too close together to even feel remotely realistic. The clutch pedal has no resistance (hydraulic and cable clutches have SOME resistance, more so than the throttle at least), the brake pedal feels too stiff all the way through and you could bottom it out. On a normal car, bottoming out the brake pedal means your hydraulic system has overboiled, has failed, or has air in the system (bad juju). The throttle does feel realistic because most modern cars have drive-by-wire where the throttle pedal is linked to a sensor that transmits the data to the PCM so the throttle motor moves the plate (in essence, the interface is the same as the G25 throttle). I found that my size 12 shoe kept touching the throttle whenever I used the brakes. There was no dead-pedal location to rest my clutch foot.
Bottom line:
The G25 would be a great tool/toy for youngsters trying to figure out cars, interested in motorsports, or going for their license. I found that the G25 just didn't feel realistic enough to me and I felt it wasn't worth the price. I spent over a week trying it out with GTR2 and I couldn't get my times even close to what I had with just the keyboard because I found that my times were consistently faster using the keyboard. The steering response with the FFB wheel was very vague and useless. The shifter felt like a toy, and the pedals just didn't feel right.
My biggest complaint with the G25 is the high cost because you're essentially just buying a good wheel and set of pedals. The DFGT has both of these for 1/2 the price, so Logitech could have cut the cost of the G25 by not including an overly complex toy of a shifter. Basically take the DFGT wheel, mate it with the G25 pedals and include a simple sequential shifter and paddle shifters. The clutch can also be left out because less than 1% of driving games have a clutch and only a few games like Viper Racing seemed to have modeled the clutch accurately. GTR, GTR2, Race, Race 07, and GTR Evolution include a clutch but it serves no real purpose.
Update:
I ordered the Logitech Driving Force GT since I read that Logitech used lessons learned from the G25 wheel and improved on the Driving Force Pro wheel to develop the DFGT wheel. I know the pedals aren't going to be as robust as the pedals on the G25, but at least the DFGT is 1/2 the price of the G25.
I would recommend that Logitech sell the G25/DFGT wheel, a sequential shifter, and G25 pedals w/o the gated shifter at a lower price. Modern direct-shift gearboxes use paddle shifters anyhow: Nissan GT-R, Audi DSG, Lamborghini Gallardo, etc...
Customer Review: Good value for money
Summary: 5 Stars
Logitech's G25 has been on the market for a while, but I had been content to use an old Microsoft wheel up until recently for my PC racing sims (rFactor, Grand Prix Legends). A wheel upgrade was long overdue, so I finally took the plunge on Force Feedback after seeing screenshots of rFactor 2 popping up on the net.
My expectations of mainstream wheel/pedal rigs have always been low, so it was a pleasant surprise when I began doing laps with the G25 and found the controller to be precise and responsive. The force feedback's value to lap times is debatable, but it does add an element of physical information that I would not give up after having experienced it. Install the Pits' NAGT mod for rFactor, turn the FF effects to their maximum settings, switch on RealFeel in the Upgrades menu for your vehicles, and you will feel curbing, road texture, and steering weight that can be eerily realistic. The build quality seems to be high, the software installed with no issues on my Vista64 machine and the wheel is fully functional in rFactor and Grand Prix Legends, doing its job well in both. Unfortunately, those are the only two sims I am running at this time, so YMMV in other apps.
The shifter works well in rFactor and can be overridden at any time by moving the shifter to neutral and using the wheel mounted paddles. I did not investigate H-pattern shifting compatibility in GPL, so I cannot comment on its performance there.
In just about every way that matters, this wheel is comparable to much more expensive controllers I have used in the past. My old BallRacing F1 with its all-metal construction and Personal F1 wheel wrapped in suede was probably more comfortable, but it also cost twice as much as the G25 in 1990s dollars and lacked force feedback as well as USB connectivity. A modern premium wheel can run to $1000, but for the casual to serious sim-racer, this wheel is probably the best value for money on the market today.
The throttle pedal could use a bit more travel in order to make throttle modulation less knife edge, but the stiff brake and light clutch are well placed and comfortable for my size 12 feet. Anyone wearing EE shoes might have an issue with the spacing, particularly if they want to left foot brake. I would actually prefer a D-shaped wheel, as it spreads your hands further apart, which helps comfort and feel, but the G25's wheel is no problem after a couple hours lapping the `Ring in GPL.
Compatibility with consoles is an added bonus, as this wheel works flawlessly on my PS3 in titles like Grid and Dirt. Most of my virtual racing is done on the PC, but the added compatibility and additional options only add value to an already potent package.
A note on the software: If you are running a 64-bit OS, Profile v5.04.110 is a must. Earlier versions installed without issue, but did not launch properly and were ultimately unusable. Not a huge issue, since rFactor has no issues with the wheel, but to get the most out of GPL, some tweaking is in order, so the latest Profiler becomes a necessity.
Pros: Good feel, precise, strong force feedback that is highly adjustable via the Profile application, excellent value for money, build quality is surprisingly high for mainstream wheel/pedals
Cons: Included Profiler software is useless in Vista 64 as shipped, throttle needs a bit more travel, needs more wheel-mounted buttons(apparently this is coming with the G27), clamping system barely accommodates the leading edge of my computer desk - beware if your desk's clamping surface is more than 1.75" tall
Of course, Amazon dropped the price $12 the day after my wheel shipped, but at anything near $200 this wheel is good value. How unfortunate the price drop guarantee is no longer in effect. C'est la vie.